Jerzy Mikułowski-Pomorski (English)

Z Historia Wisły

Jerzy Mikułowski-Pomorski, wywiad 15.04.2010

Interview with Professor Jerzy Mikułowski-Pomorski for HistoriaWisły.pl

Kraków, April 15, 2010

(Subheadings are from the editorial team, text authorized)

On Polish fencing in the 1950s

Those were great years for fencing in Poland. Kraków played a significant role in this. Sabre and foil started to lead in Europe, competing with Italy, Hungary, and France. This did not apply to the épée, which had fewer successes. What later became known as the Kraków Fencing Club (KKS) was a fencing section of Budowlani, which had its hall in the basement of Sokół, and from there emerged the first gold sabre team in Poland. The first quartet were all Krakowiaks except for the Varsovian Jurek Pawłowski. There was Kajtek Zabłocki, very fast and agile, who later became the European Junior Sabre Champion. There were also Suski and two Przeździeckis.

The tradition of Polish sports fencing dates back to the time of the partitions. Polish fencers participated in the Olympics under Austrian colors, and then in 1924, Dr. Papée and Friedrich were part of the Polish Olympic team. They later, along with the Sołtan couple, led fencing in Sokół. After the successes of the young sabrists, there was a trend towards this discipline. In Europe, the Hungarians led, as they were a very sport-oriented nation at the time, which proved that they did not suffer from the war hunger that greatly weakened many previously sports-oriented nations. In Poland, sports were dominated by Silesia and the Coast, because several outstanding athletes could practice in German military teams (e.g., boxers). However, this did not apply to fencing, a sport for the intellectual youth. In the 1950s, a turning point was the hiring of Hungarian Jonas Kevey as the national team coach, a controversial figure in the fencing world for breaking with the classical Italian school based on solid defense. Kevey valued attack, especially the flash, which involved the fencer flying towards the opponent with both feet off the ground. A well-executed flash was very effective, but a poorly prepared one left the fencer vulnerable. Today, this is not understood. Ten years ago, Kevey visited Poland and explained his attacking fencing style in a television interview, but the journalists had no idea what he was talking about. It should be explained that Polish fencers, especially the best ones, had a very good foundation, including knowledge of defense.

The Polish school of Kevey was built on these foundations. It is worth knowing that training a young fencer required long hours of practice, especially leg work, before allowing them to put on a tracksuit and mask.

Polish fencing instructors came from the pre-war military.

In Budowlani, there was also the intellectual of fencing, Zbigniew Czajkowski, who wrote books and developed theory. It is a discipline with a long history and many treatises and dissertations dedicated to it.

It was very serious, intellectual, and liked by the adepts, who usually studied in high schools and then completed their studies.

On the beginnings of his fencing journey

We boys studying at V Liceum im. Witkowskiego played at fencing ourselves. It started with one of our friends, whose father was a professor at the Technical University, coming out of Heine-Medina. His father wanted him to practice a lot, so he bought him fencing equipment. So we had sabres and masks, and instead of doing homework, we "clashed" with each other. Of course, we had no idea what we were doing. But as it usually happened with sports in Kraków, these student contacts led to the formation of clubs and sports sections. After all, football also started in two high schools. A good PE teacher could start it. It was a difficult task because the rest of the faculty generally did not understand it. But they still succeeded, as evidenced by Kraków basketball.

There was no PE teacher, but PE classes, where Andrzej Fiszer, later known as Bunio, appeared. Bunio Fiszer observed how we played volleyball and noticed that I served with my left hand. He immediately singled me out from among my peers and, with a few others, invited me to the section. It is worth mentioning that everyone who played fencing in the Sokalskis' home was included in this group, including Jacek. It might seem strange today when one needs the right physical conditions to practice sports. The sport offered to wartime children did not only develop top athletes.

So not only Jacek, but also the one-armed Jurek Nastalski, now a professor at Jagiellonian University, was a very good sabreur. This also applied to other disciplines for which Kraków was famous. The one-armed Zbyszek Wojciechowski, later a radio journalist, was then a basketball player for Wisła. And how about, for example, the third basketball team of Wisła! They had players who could stand up to the table. But since they were smart guys, they were not discouraged. Maybe such a player could be useful to pass the ball from below. Of course, the first team had big guys, while the subsequent teams also had shorter players.

This was a period when sport was also a way of social life. People went to different disciplines. The communist era was so dull that we escaped into sports, among other things. Earlier, I practiced athletics. The municipal stadium was a great place.

Fencing at Wisła

And so a group of friends was taken into the section. It already existed; Fiszer had started it at the Telecommunications Technical School, and there were three more boys from there: Kromka, Kolasa, and Tomaszewicz. Later, students from other high schools joined the section, including Marian Noga from Kochanowski High School, now a professor of computer science at AGH. We started practicing; Fiszer had just rented a room at our high school.

One day Kevey came to us and tested our reflexes. It turned out that I had a very good result and quick reactions.

Slowly the section was getting off the ground. We took the first fencing steps that give a sports class (third). I helped Bunio by leading my peers. The first step we took together with AZS. AZS led this discipline at the acting school. As part of their studies, actors had to learn fencing, and to pass it, they had to go through the first step. AZS wanted Jurek Grotowski, the famous later Grotowski, to pass the first step. At one point, he had to fence with Jacek Sokalski. Grotowski had poor eyesight and was not physically fit, while Jacek Sokalski was a tall guy but then had trouble walking. The fight was strange, but in the end, both passed the first step.

Today Jacek Sokalski is a distinguished architect living in Milan, building roller coasters for the company he named Sokal-ski.

Jurek is no longer alive, but he became a great creator of world theater.

For me, the matter ended at some point. Bunio Fiszer said, "Jurek, you need to get examined." It turned out I had a heart arrhythmia. One doctor referred me to another, the second doctor was saddened, and I stopped being a competitor. But I continued to participate in the section's work and trained athletes.

There were no major sports successes and triumphs there, though.

Historia Wisły: But Jerzy Twardokens was a Polish champion while he was a Wisła athlete.

Yes, he was. However, he came from Wrocław, so there were no special merits of Kraków fencing, let alone Wisła’s. But Gwardia had those merits. Please remember that the whole Gwardia structure was passing players from place to place. He actually did not attend training sessions; he trained himself and was in the squad.

On the training camp'

I was at a training camp in Jelenia Góra, where there was a well-equipped training center. I remember that we were at full throttle all the time. One could not break out of this constant activity mode. When we finished all the activities, which were a lot, we played basketball ourselves. We were fed very intensively. A lot of nutritious food to burn off all day. Initially, it was hard to get used to. In the 1950s, it was quite hungry.

On where training took place

We first practiced at our school and then on the grounds of Wisła's building facilities.

There is a grand romantic story about the creation of the Wisła hall. But what I saw was its shabby construction by prisoners. Presumably, someone stole cement because the bricks were joined with wet sand. We practiced in the hall; there were side walls, partition walls. Just like that… When one of us landed after a flash on the partition wall, it fell with the wall onto the floor… "Well, then practice on the courts," we were told. We went to the courts, but fencing footwork destroys the surface!

HW: These court fields were along the current west stand, right? There were also tennis matches, sometimes basketball, right?

Yes. It was at that level. The new stadium wasn’t there yet; football was played on the old field.

On equipment

There were problems with equipment, but I don’t remember a crisis with blades, and blades do break. They were not extraordinary, but a certain amount was available. We had so-called Belgians, or grips adapted to the hand. I was left-handed, so I needed the so-called French grip, which fitted any hand, but it was not very practical. A larger glove was necessary for this type of grip. It was hard to get it. I had a good trainer, but it happened that I had to train with bad equipment.

On fencing coaches and referees

Bunio Fiszer was our coach. Later, I met a few very good referees at international competitions, including Hungarian Zoltan Kavy, but there were also foreigners at home, such as Ivan Vereshagin, a fencing theorist from the Soviet Union.

On sports in Kraków in general

Sport was relatively developed; Kraków had good clubs in various disciplines. Our basketball players, for example, were outstanding, as were football players.

HW: What does Professor Mikułowski-Pomorski think about the current fencing situation in Poland?

He said that the Polish fencing school had very good results, but the fight for the gold was tough. We were close to success, but Hungary, Italy, and France had very good fencers. Fencing was an elite sport, but not everyone had access to it.

HW: What about the current situation?

The professor does not see a problem with the lack of results. In his opinion, there are few young people starting to practice this discipline, and it requires great dedication and effort. There are fewer and fewer professionals, which also affects the results.

HW: Thank you very much for the interview.

JM-P: Please, I am glad I could share my memories.